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	<title>Comments on: Visualizing Molecular Structure / Property Correlations</title>
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	<link>http://geoffhutchison.net/blog/archives/2008/02/16/visualizing-molecular-structure-property-correlations/</link>
	<description>Geoff Hutchison's personal weblog on chemistry, nanotechnology, science, books, life and software development -- in no particular order.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Rich Apodaca</title>
		<link>http://geoffhutchison.net/blog/archives/2008/02/16/visualizing-molecular-structure-property-correlations/#comment-100790</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Apodaca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Geoff, both 2D and 3D views are complementary. What works well for one usually doesn't work well for the other.

BTW, JSpecView has some interesting demos set up:

http://wwwchem.uwimona.edu.jm/spectra/JSpecView/iranim/index.html

For example, this one lets you correlate IR spectral peaks with vibrational modes visualized by Jmol:

http://wwwchem.uwimona.edu.jm/spectra/JSpecView/iranim/oclanilineJ/oclaniline.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff, both 2D and 3D views are complementary. What works well for one usually doesn&#8217;t work well for the other.</p>
<p>BTW, JSpecView has some interesting demos set up:</p>
<p><a href="http://wwwchem.uwimona.edu.jm/spectra/JSpecView/iranim/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://wwwchem.uwimona.edu.jm/spectra/JSpecView/iranim/index.html</a></p>
<p>For example, this one lets you correlate IR spectral peaks with vibrational modes visualized by Jmol:</p>
<p><a href="http://wwwchem.uwimona.edu.jm/spectra/JSpecView/iranim/oclanilineJ/oclaniline.html" rel="nofollow">http://wwwchem.uwimona.edu.jm/spectra/JSpecView/iranim/oclanilineJ/oclaniline.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://geoffhutchison.net/blog/archives/2008/02/16/visualizing-molecular-structure-property-correlations/#comment-100782</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geoffhutchison.net/blog/archives/2008/02/16/visualizing-molecular-structure-property-correlations/#comment-100782</guid>
		<description>Rich, obviously what you've been describing on your blog would offer ways of doing this in 2D. I've always been worried that 2D structure diagrams often leave out useful perspective. I think if you can do this, it would be a great tool.

Rajarshi, you seem to be interested in "fragment properties." But if you have a molecular visualization tool (2D or 3D) which "lets you get under the hood," you can imagine ways to do it. You point to the great examples in the statistical analysis world. But programs like SPSS or S or R or Matlab... these all have programming languages to let experts script almost anything they want to view. There are &lt;em&gt;some&lt;/em&gt; examples of such programmable molecular visualization tools, but not necessarily flexible enough to do this.

Want to know how I'd implement your COOH group example? I'd script something which matches the COOH using SMARTS and sets the color of those atoms based on the numeric data.

In my Ph.D. dissertation, I changed bond orders to reflect actual bond distances, rather than the conventional "three-double bonds to a benzene ring" and "two double bonds to a thiophene." You immediately saw changes in bonding structure -- no need for a strange Excel plot.

No, I can't do this yet using &lt;a href="http://avogadro.sourceforge.net/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Avogadro&lt;/a&gt; (or anything else). But that's why I'm posting challenges. This type of feature would clearly be helpful to chemists. Now we need to go try it. Why should we limit ourselves to the traditional chemistry representations?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich, obviously what you&#8217;ve been describing on your blog would offer ways of doing this in 2D. I&#8217;ve always been worried that 2D structure diagrams often leave out useful perspective. I think if you can do this, it would be a great tool.</p>
<p>Rajarshi, you seem to be interested in &#8220;fragment properties.&#8221; But if you have a molecular visualization tool (2D or 3D) which &#8220;lets you get under the hood,&#8221; you can imagine ways to do it. You point to the great examples in the statistical analysis world. But programs like SPSS or S or R or Matlab&#8230; these all have programming languages to let experts script almost anything they want to view. There are <em>some</em> examples of such programmable molecular visualization tools, but not necessarily flexible enough to do this.</p>
<p>Want to know how I&#8217;d implement your COOH group example? I&#8217;d script something which matches the COOH using SMARTS and sets the color of those atoms based on the numeric data.</p>
<p>In my Ph.D. dissertation, I changed bond orders to reflect actual bond distances, rather than the conventional &#8220;three-double bonds to a benzene ring&#8221; and &#8220;two double bonds to a thiophene.&#8221; You immediately saw changes in bonding structure &#8212; no need for a strange Excel plot.</p>
<p>No, I can&#8217;t do this yet using <a href="http://avogadro.sourceforge.net/" rel="nofollow">Avogadro</a> (or anything else). But that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m posting challenges. This type of feature would clearly be helpful to chemists. Now we need to go try it. Why should we limit ourselves to the traditional chemistry representations?</p>
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		<title>By: Rajarshi</title>
		<link>http://geoffhutchison.net/blog/archives/2008/02/16/visualizing-molecular-structure-property-correlations/#comment-100708</link>
		<dc:creator>Rajarshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geoffhutchison.net/blog/archives/2008/02/16/visualizing-molecular-structure-property-correlations/#comment-100708</guid>
		<description>Hmm, I wonder how difficult it is. Say you have a set of substituted benzoic acids. And you're interested in highlighting those COOH groups on which there is less charge compared to the average charge on that group over the whole dataset. If you had partial charges for te atoms this is not difficult at all.

In general, for atom based properties, I don't think this would be very difficult. On the other hand making a generalized and intuitive interface to this would be challenging

This problem, is reminiscient of the 'Grammar of Graphics' (&lt;a href="http://www.spss.com/research/wilkinson/TheGrammarOfGraphics/GOG.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.spss.com/research/wilkinson/TheGrammarOfGraphics/GOG.html&lt;/a&gt;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, I wonder how difficult it is. Say you have a set of substituted benzoic acids. And you&#8217;re interested in highlighting those COOH groups on which there is less charge compared to the average charge on that group over the whole dataset. If you had partial charges for te atoms this is not difficult at all.</p>
<p>In general, for atom based properties, I don&#8217;t think this would be very difficult. On the other hand making a generalized and intuitive interface to this would be challenging</p>
<p>This problem, is reminiscient of the &#8216;Grammar of Graphics&#8217; (<a href="http://www.spss.com/research/wilkinson/TheGrammarOfGraphics/GOG.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.spss.com/research/wilkinson/TheGrammarOfGraphics/GOG.html</a>)</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Apodaca</title>
		<link>http://geoffhutchison.net/blog/archives/2008/02/16/visualizing-molecular-structure-property-correlations/#comment-100707</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Apodaca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geoffhutchison.net/blog/archives/2008/02/16/visualizing-molecular-structure-property-correlations/#comment-100707</guid>
		<description>Geoff, I've been thinking along exactly the same lines. As you say, it's not difficult, provided you have the right tool:

http://depth-first.com/articles/2008/02/06/the-chemically-enabled-user-interface-an-introduction-to-leafcutter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff, I&#8217;ve been thinking along exactly the same lines. As you say, it&#8217;s not difficult, provided you have the right tool:</p>
<p><a href="http://depth-first.com/articles/2008/02/06/the-chemically-enabled-user-interface-an-introduction-to-leafcutter" rel="nofollow">http://depth-first.com/articles/2008/02/06/the-chemically-enabled-user-interface-an-introduction-to-leafcutter</a></p>
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